[2 dismissals]Add rule against character clones

[Ornias]

Just now, Garnascus said:

Ok you have really scared me now. My hands are shaking as i type this. Can you tell me how this is to the server's detriment? I do not think its a big deal for two characters to be similar or mirror certain traits. 

I'm very sorry to hear this Garn. I hope u recover soon

Sprite replication inofitself is not necessarily bad. Replicating old characters, rather than creating new ones, is lazy. Being lazy in the creation of your characters, instead of improving with what you learn, is damaging to others because you're not contributing to the same level that other people (theoretically) are in the game.

Amorys argument is that people who replicate sprites are almost universally replicating the characters as well. I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. I can see no time when someone would create an identical sprite to an old character other than:

A) OOC Comfort, which I believe is an undue conflation of character design and 'avatarism', where you view your character as a representation of yourself.

B) Not wanting to invest the effort in creating a new character, which I believe is incredibly harmful in a roleplay environment, ESPECIALLY for older and more experienced players.

First time considering this kinda rule, though, so there's probably a bunch of stuff I haven't thought of that factors into it.

[Garnascus]

31 minutes ago, AmoryBlaine said:

Why are you so angry over this? What about this is causing you to lose your temper, when it's been nothing but civil discussion? You explode at me in the discord, and you explode at him here. How exactly is "We don't really care." far off from, "We don't view this as an issue." Do you view it with care? Is this something that concerns you?

Im just messin around with ornias because he ahelps like this a lot. I find it funny and i hope he does too. I exploded at you because you mentioned me being obtuse on purpose. i felt that "i am unconvinced this is an issue" is a reasonable stance to hold given the points i have made. That it is both not an issue and difficult to do anything about is also logical given the points i have made. I do not think its fair to intentionally split it into a dichotomy you know is not my point. 

38 minutes ago, AmoryBlaine said:

ou don't think this is an issue, your stance is, "Well I'm the Headmin."

Well i think my first post explained why i do not like this policy suggestion. At the end of the day i do have one of the final says. 

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Why did you make this thread immediately during the round I was playing the tajara head of personnel Akhara Rhanja-adaw? He is completely different from Rhazakal Rhazajun-Jawdat.... Please stop vagueposting about me.

This is also not a good idea. -1

[Garnascus]

42 minutes ago, Ornias said:

Amorys argument is that people who replicate sprites are almost universally replicating the characters as well. I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. I can see no time when someone would create an identical sprite to an old character other than:

A) OOC Comfort, which I believe is an undue conflation of character design and 'avatarism', where you view your character as a representation of yourself.

 B) Not wanting to invest the effort in creating a new character, which I believe is incredibly harmful in a roleplay environment, ESPECIALLY for older and more experienced players.

Sorry i missed your post or this would not be two posts.

Ok i understand this. My objection to this is i think it is perfectly acceptable for someone to view their character as a representation of themselves. There have certainly been times i have encouraged people to try new things but the bar for this and the bar set by this thread are WOOOOORLDS apart. I am talking literal carbon copies worse even than nanako. I just feel like how you actually roleplay. Whether you make an effort to talk to people or if you end up in the brig drinking space cleaner. Those things are what i think of when i think of how good someone can RP. 

[Zundy]

1 hour ago, Ornias said:

This doesn't stand. Nobody has run out of ways to portray a character with the provided tools.

Well apparently they have hence this thread unless the real issue is that they're playing the same character under a different name which forcing them to change their sprite won't change. 

If it's so difficult to prove they're doing it when the sprite is the same, heaven help you when they change the sprite.

[Mogelix]

+1 i think if you don't have the creativity to make a new char for each department and just make someone with very minute name differences, RPed the same, with no or extremely similar flavour text, then you should be warned for being LRP, breaking the atmosphere of the game. it's just plain out uncool and totally inappropriate for a HRP server. remember that we're playing characters here. that's the difference between HRP and LRP. HRP you play a character. LRP you play yourself. What's there not to understand? This behaviour negatively affects the RP quality of the server with no upsides for anyone except the person who now doesn't have to make actually new characters.

[Zundy]

That's already against the rules Mogelix. The suggestion is to ban people from having the same sprite as another character they play.

[ben10083]

Typically when I create a character (that is human) I usually just change up the hair and maybe the facial hair if I feel creative. The real customization goes into what I have them wear and what they have. In the Universe where literally trillions of humans/bug people/furries cat people/robutts/ and squids, it really isn't that rare to find people who look somewhat similar.

Also, no one has said yet how this is a issue worth all the time and effort to memorize the literal thousands of different characters and check each one that joins a round to make sure that their cat person does not match cat person #1421 or #4123, not to mention the workload increase to do all this.

Overall, I see this as a non-issue that would be difficult to moderate, and we already have player/character complaints if you find carbon copies.

Also, ffs @AmoryBlaine stop being so passive aggressive towards Garn.

-1

[DaTimeSmog]

I mean, most hair styles look like absolute shit so its bound that many players prefer those who are objectively more pleasing to look at. But I dont really see this being a problem in.. any kind of environment.

[Brutishcrab51]

This is a ridiculous discussion. Supporters of this discussion are ridiculous. Amory, this is not a real problem in-game. People don't do this, and suspensions and CCIA actions don't happen on a scale that would make this happen for people to "avoid" OOC backlash, for avoiding suspensions and shit.

 

tl;dr this is ridiculous, -1.

[AmoryBlaine]

I'm fascinated by the amount of people incapable of understanding what clones are.

@ben10083

Why exactly would anyone need to memorize thousands of characters? What does checking all these thousands of characters have to do with noticing pattern behavior by individual players re-using their character?

Now I understand this may be news to you, but currently we allow character clones if they aren't made with the specific intent of maliciously beating an IC suspension. How do I know? Because @DRagO

Ruled as such. We had a Captain who exists because the player was requested to- OOCly- not play their recently promoted HoS as a Captain due to the IC implications of being promoted twice in a week. According to them, there was insufficient grounds for the player to be spoken to, because simply re-using the same sprite, and having an identical character for the purpose of playing that role, is not in of itself malicious.

We have character clones often enough to have written policy on it. It is possible to have a standard, while also remaining incapable of acting on it. This is, as has been said, a minor issue. It wouldn't hurt anyone but those playing character clones.

@Brutishcrab51

People do, do this. And it's not something being dealt with unless it is also in relation to other rule breaks.

[geeves]

sounds like you should make a player complaint instead tbh, seems like you're targetting one guy

[AmoryBlaine]

8 minutes ago, geeves said:

sounds like you should make a player complaint instead tbh, seems like you're targetting one guy

Why would I make a player complaint, or a staff complaint for that matter, on something that has no actual rules in place over it? This is a poor line of thinking because it puts an emphasis on the player, rather than the lack of written policy.

[Butterrobber202]

Really not that important, no need for rule clogging. I’ve actually never noticed this

[Skull132]

14 hours ago, AmoryBlaine said:

Recently it came to my attention that it's alright to have multiple characters look exactly the same, as long as their names are not similar, and they act differently.

Have to say. This threw me for a loop. You cite roleplay benefits, and yet, in your opening statement, you only bring out issue with appearances. Considering the game's capacity for visual fidelity, this has to be the least important trait. Specially when when the core of the character, how they act, is different, as per your definition of a clone.

Further regarding the definitions.

14 hours ago, AmoryBlaine said:

Everyone knows they're the same, but due to the nature of this game and it's system for punishment, you'd need evidence.

Everyone knowing something does not make it quantifiable. It'd be as good as staff starting to ban people who are obviously here to wreak shit. Why even require evidence of someone being a dick, when we can just cut out the middle-man? So a concrete definition would be necessary and "Has the same appearance as character Y," does not really cut it, as has explained per numerous examples above.

Now, contrary to your opinion. This has been punished in the past and has thus been proven to be against the rules on specific occasions. One case was a character ban, wherein a player attempted to dodge said character ban by creating a new character with a new name, a new appearance, and altered mannerisms. But it was clear upon inspection of the character's background and general conduct that the character was basically still a clone/continuation of the banned character. So it was squashed. Which leaves us with a case wherein character duplication with intent to dodge punitive action is banned as a general rule.

There is also a certain limit of sensibility. Despite your attempts at making this seem like a regular happenstance, it really isn't. Were it to ever become the norm, or was one player to be caught creating an n-amount of characters who are essentially the same, into various roles, it would probably be a violation of the roleplay rules. Because as you do point out, it can be interpreted as bad roleplay. I just disagree with the qualifiers.

And this brings us to the general point about how our rule set is added to or subtracted from. We aim to minimize niche or outlier rules, unless absolutely necessary. If you want to see a reason why, go read up on the Apophis era rules. It only escalates rules lawyering, because you validate the idea of, "Well, it's not explicitly mentioned in the rules, so staff can't rule on it!" So this likely won't be added.

[Alberyk]

I am going to vote for dismissal due to the following reason:

As skull pointed out, people doing this in a malicious way, such to bypass a restrictions, will be punished. There are a couple of cases already on this.

 

[Flamingo]

Also voting for dismissal. 

 

Basically skull outlined my thoughts, but characters' who are cloned (for example, to avoid punishment placed on another character ICly) are already punished. If you make an entirely different character who just looks the same, then I don't really see an issue if they act differently and have a different name. Echoing what garn said, as long as it is not done in bad faith (changing one letter in the name comes to mind), then I have no issue. It is incredibly minor and honestly, you can only make characters' look so different with only like 20 good hairstyles, and 32x32 sprites.