CampinKiller Posted October 26, 2020 Posted October 26, 2020 As the title says, either make the SAT and its function known to all of command, or at least make it known to the mindshielded members of command (read: HoS). Why should this be changed? Back in the olden days of Aurora, everyone knew about the nuke. It was the thing nobody cared about or talked about, because it makes sense that the station has a self-destruct. I mean, hell, at one point the nuke was a literal bomb with radiation symbols on it on Vault cameras. I cannot think of a single benefit of making its existence known only to the Captain. That is not to say that anyone other than the Captain should know how to operate it, but that its existence should not be that closely guarded. I cannot count the number of times where I, and other members of command, have had to go "hurrr what, a nuke, yeah right, oh it does exist, okay" because command is, for whatever reason, not entrusted to the information. It makes 0 sense. It stifles the ability of the Captain to tell the HoS what the magic disk is so as to actually cause them to understand the necessity of recovering it. Let's think about it for a moment: anyone in command can assume Acting Captain and would be within their rights to walk into the SAT terminal room and use their brains. This has happened before in extended/otherwise canon situations. They wouldn't know how to use it, sure, but they could ask the AI, who would have to brief them as they are at the clearance level of the Captain. There's also the fact that command as a whole wouldn't just up and blab about it. It would be one more thing that falls under loads of NDAs and company loyalty as a member of station command, and wouldn't be talked about outside of a serious emergency. Captains are already trusted to this information, it's not like station command is a bunch of schoolgirls that gossip about the classified things they have access to. If there is concern about outside influence, then limit it to the mindshielded members of command. But anyone in command is literally entrusted to be the Acting Captain if necessary, and again, they can quite easily find out about the existence of the SAT and its purpose.
Hepatica Posted October 26, 2020 Posted October 26, 2020 I think Head of Security's should absolutely know about the Nuke. I wouldn't trust a single Chief Engineer with this knowledge, though. Not even a little bit. I don't think the CMO needs to know either. An argument could be made for the Research Director, BUT I think Research Directors should have a mind shield as well, aside from the fact that they're expected to be trusted with all of the Aurora's research, they are suppose to be one of the most important staff aboard a research station. I think the Head of Security, Captain, and Research Director should know, and the Research Director should be mind shielded to prevent that knowledge from leaking out in a worst case scenario of their kidnapping or someone trying to get information out of them via some form of mind manipulation. The Head of Personnel doesn't need to know either, they're just a glorified paper pusher.
Butterrobber202 Posted October 26, 2020 Posted October 26, 2020 Allowing Mind Shielded Command members works for me. I think the HoS (and possibly the RD if they shielded) is a logical choice.
furrycactus Posted October 27, 2020 Posted October 27, 2020 (edited) If we're entrusting only some command but not others underneath the Captain, then I feel we're going to be on a slippery slope for elevating certain heads of staff above others, and that's not how it's meant to be. Sure, on other servers there's a "chain of succession" or whatever and a ranking of importance, but all members of command on the Aurora are supposed to be on equal footing and importance, just with different areas of expertise. Saying "only HoS and maybe RD" pushes us only further to that idea that the HoS is the second-in-command, which simply isn't the case. It should be all or nothing. Saying "I wouldn't trust a single CE with the knowledge" is getting into a more subjective matter, because I know several HoSs that I wouldn't trust with the knowledge either, and several RDs. I think general knowledge about it is fine, but actual operation should be limited to the Captain/Acting Captains informed by an AI. Edited October 27, 2020 by furrycactus
Lmwevil Posted October 27, 2020 Posted October 27, 2020 If the Acting Captain briefcase had a slip saying 'opening this forces you under the highest tier NDA, this is what the disk is for. You will be given an amnesiac to forget it at the end of the shift' that seems fair enough if you wanted acting captains to be able to hit the button
Connorjg1 Posted October 27, 2020 Posted October 27, 2020 I wouldn't be opposed to all of command knowing but at least the Head of Security. It makes no sense the Head of Security isn't trusted enough to know about the Nuclear Explosive aboard the Aurora. This is excluding the fact that anyone who assumes acting captaincy for any reason can get into the SAT. Have the spare ID to raise a biohazard alert? You could just wander on in. It's the worst kept secret of all time.
Amunak Posted October 27, 2020 Posted October 27, 2020 Then perhaps make it so that they know about its existence, and that if something happens that they need it they must ask the captain, AI or perhaps seek out the slip on the briefcase (which would be a great addition in any case I think).
Zelmana Posted October 27, 2020 Posted October 27, 2020 I think this makes sense. However, we must also address that much of Command fails to be aware of the documented lack of knowledge surrounding even the disk. Many times, as HoS, I have people asking me if the disk is secure only for me to have to try to explain it away. Even members of Command. I realize it may be possible they have learned of it via an extended round or through events, but it seems a bit too common for that. "The Captain is the only one aside from the stationbound AI who knows about the nuke and the Delta Protocol. The Head of Security is aware that there is a mysterious authentication disk on station that needs to be protected at all costs, but not of its purpose."
Butterrobber202 Posted October 27, 2020 Posted October 27, 2020 18 hours ago, furrycactus said: If we're entrusting only some command but not others underneath the Captain, then I feel we're going to be on a slippery slope for elevating certain heads of staff above others, and that's not how it's meant to be. Sure, on other servers there's a "chain of succession" or whatever and a ranking of importance, but all members of command on the Aurora are supposed to be on equal footing and importance, just with different areas of expertise. Saying "only HoS and maybe RD" pushes us only further to that idea that the HoS is the second-in-command, which simply isn't the case. It should be all or nothing. Saying "I wouldn't trust a single CE with the knowledge" is getting into a more subjective matter, because I know several HoSs that I wouldn't trust with the knowledge either, and several RDs. I think general knowledge about it is fine, but actual operation should be limited to the Captain/Acting Captains informed by an AI. I think it's a matter of departmentalizing knowledge. The Head of Security should know because it is a, Security matter.
geeves Posted October 27, 2020 Posted October 27, 2020 I think it's fine that just the captain knows about it. It's a last ditch "blow this rock up" for NanoTrasen to use for whatever reason they see fit, not the Head of Security or anyone else. The Captain is merely an extension of NanoTrasen. There's no benefit to the head of security knowing about it. If the SAT needs protecting, NT-ERT can handle it.
Carver Posted October 28, 2020 Posted October 28, 2020 I never understood why a self-destruct function in a facility is considered such an intense secret, especially with how inaccessible the usage of it is to anyone but the Captain (and that's still requiring intervention from Central for the code).
Scheveningen Posted October 28, 2020 Posted October 28, 2020 Even the head of security is on a need to know basis. -1.
CampinKiller Posted October 28, 2020 Author Posted October 28, 2020 On 26/10/2020 at 20:20, furrycactus said: If we're entrusting only some command but not others underneath the Captain, then I feel we're going to be on a slippery slope for elevating certain heads of staff above others, and that's not how it's meant to be. Sure, on other servers there's a "chain of succession" or whatever and a ranking of importance, but all members of command on the Aurora are supposed to be on equal footing and importance, just with different areas of expertise. Saying "only HoS and maybe RD" pushes us only further to that idea that the HoS is the second-in-command, which simply isn't the case. It should be all or nothing. Saying "I wouldn't trust a single CE with the knowledge" is getting into a more subjective matter, because I know several HoSs that I wouldn't trust with the knowledge either, and several RDs. I think general knowledge about it is fine, but actual operation should be limited to the Captain/Acting Captains informed by an AI. I understand where you are coming from, but for general knowledge purposes, it would not be elevating any heads above another. The reason one suggestion is limiting it to mindshielded members of command is so that command members that fall under antag influence don't just easily give up that there's a self-destruct device on the station. Yes, operation should be limited to the Captain/Acting Captain, I am not suggesting that anyone other than the Captain should know how to work it. On 27/10/2020 at 16:17, geeves said: I think it's fine that just the captain knows about it. It's a last ditch "blow this rock up" for NanoTrasen to use for whatever reason they see fit, not the Head of Security or anyone else. The Captain is merely an extension of NanoTrasen. There's no benefit to the head of security knowing about it. If the SAT needs protecting, NT-ERT can handle it. Again, this is not for the knowledge of how to work it to be disseminated, but rather for the knowledge that a self-destruct exists to be passed to command/the HoS. There is great benefit to the HoS knowing about it - they don't accidentally trade away the disk in a hostage negotiation, they actually can understand the severity when they are told 'someone has this disk/is in the SAT/knows about the SAT.' As opposed to the current "Hey HoS there's a thing I can't tell you about that is being threatened and I cannot tell you why it's a threat or really anything, just deal with it." In regards to the SAT being left to the NT-ERT, command players are quite literally already being criticized for calling the ERT when it is not necessary - Security could easily handle it and without the regular officer figuring out it's a nuke, bar a gunfight happening inside the hallway - which would give it away anyway, ERT or not. The overall point that some people are missing is not to tell command/HoS that the station has a nuke, and/or how to work it, but rather to tell them the station has a self-destruct failsafe that can be triggered if the Captain deems it necessary and it is approved by Central Command. It doesn't even have to be that detailed - the presence of a failsafe wouldn't be surprising in the slightest, as many vessels likely have them in the universe.
Zundy Posted October 29, 2020 Posted October 29, 2020 Why would it even be a secret? I'd be fine if everyone knew which I kinda thought they did.
Lmwevil Posted October 29, 2020 Posted October 29, 2020 i mean logically everyone would assume that everything in space has self destructs, from space ships to stations for a million reasons. It's just that it's classified for some reason and so classified that only the highest authorities in NT could know @Zundy
Scheveningen Posted October 30, 2020 Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) The emergency shuttle can't get to the station by the usual minimum time a station is expected to self destruct. A self destruct on the 2nd flagship effort of NanoTrasen is kept under wraps because self-destruct implies murdering a ton of innocent people to prevent evidence or word of what caused/provoked its destruction from getting out. The self destruct exists to cover up whatever incredibly shitty occurrence just happened that forced the captain to have set the station to self destruct. Escape shuttle during the nuke is also literally not an option considering that the self destruct is designed to prevent any possible escape of what provoked the nuke in the first place. It's a very extreme containment option that is very questionably legal. Edited October 30, 2020 by Scheveningen
Arrow768 Posted November 12, 2020 Posted November 12, 2020 On 30/10/2020 at 02:12, Scheveningen said: The emergency shuttle can't get to the station by the usual minimum time a station is expected to self destruct. A self destruct on the 2nd flagship effort of NanoTrasen is kept under wraps because self-destruct implies murdering a ton of innocent people to prevent evidence or word of what caused/provoked its destruction from getting out. The self destruct exists to cover up whatever incredibly shitty occurrence just happened that forced the captain to have set the station to self destruct. That sums up pretty nicely why the escape shuttle exists and why only a very limited number of people is told about it. On 28/10/2020 at 22:33, CampinKiller said: [...] - the presence of a failsafe wouldn't be surprising in the slightest, as many vessels likely have them in the universe. In case of a vessel/space station it might be an expectation. However we currently have a asteroid setting, which by its nature prevents a lot of the reasons why such a self-destruct might exist in the first place. (i.e. breaking up a ship/station in case it accidentally de-orbits, ...) On 28/10/2020 at 22:33, CampinKiller said: There is great benefit to the HoS knowing about it - they don't accidentally trade away the disk in a hostage negotiation, they actually can understand the severity when they are told 'someone has this disk/is in the SAT/knows about the SAT.' That can also be handled quite easily by writing somewhere down: "Protect the disk/SAT at all costs and do not allow unauthorized personell access to it under any circumstances." With that sentence we have given the HoS everything they need to know about the Disk/SAT. Therefore I dont see the need to change the current situation regarding the self-destruct. One thing that could be beneficial would be to add a "fake ui" that is shown unless the disk is inserted to conceal the true function of the terminal. And maybe a resprite of the terminal itself. But other than that I am voting for dismissal.
Arrow768 Posted November 12, 2020 Posted November 12, 2020 On 26/10/2020 at 17:36, CampinKiller said: They wouldn't know how to use it, sure, but they could ask the AI, who would have to brief them as they are at the clearance level of the Captain. I should also clear that up: Just because someone assumes temporary captainship does not mean that they are automatically entitled to know everything a "proper" captain is authorized know and would be briefed about that by NT. So it would be perfectly fine for the AI to not answer any questions that concern the self destruct. (Its also much easier to not tell a acting captain about the nuke than to "brief them and mind wipe them afterwards with drugs" as suggested above)
NerdyVampire Posted December 7, 2020 Posted December 7, 2020 On 12/11/2020 at 03:07, Arrow768 said: I should also clear that up: Just because someone assumes temporary captainship does not mean that they are automatically entitled to know everything a "proper" captain is authorized know and would be briefed about that by NT. So it would be perfectly fine for the AI to not answer any questions that concern the self destruct. Good to have in writing ?
Recommended Posts