[FEEDBACK] Disruptor Nerf

[geeves]

As opposed to my PR that reverts disruptors, this one heavily nerfs them in an attempt to make them the weapon you use before breaking into the armory, rather than just the weapon that you use.

* Standard disruptors now have enough charge capacity for 8 shots in general, lethal shots no longer drain more.
* Lethal disruptor shots now do 20 burn damage, down from 30.
* Lethal disruptor shots no longer pass through windows and grilles.
* Stun disruptor shots now do 25 agony damage, down from 45.

https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/10698

 

Sister thread:

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by geeves

[Connorjg1]

The ability for lethal rounds to pass through windows is an essential use of disruptors imo as it allows security to fight Carp without having to go to the armoury. Outside of that though looks good I think

[niennab]

Personally I'd prefer if the lethal shots firing through windows stayed. As is, the disruptor pistols assist a lot with xenofauna and can get officers out of a tricky situation if they run out of charge on a main weapon or try to help with the (just god awful) events while others are being armed.

[geeves]

I would much rather prefer to add a weapon like the janitor's pest ray, that can be used to shoot carp, and add those to the surface checkpoint.

[The lancer]

My biggest issue isn't how you won't be able to shoot people with lethals, but the carp issue. It's much easier to just flick to lethal and shoot them than run to the armoury, which is what makes the whole event a real chore to go through.

So yeah a pest gun would be great.

[Scheveningen]

I think having shot consumption be the same, as in 8 shots regardless of mode, would be better, just so it isn't as massive of a nerf.

I don't mind the removal of being able to pass through windows. They're blasters after all, solid projectiles.

[Gentlemanly Headcrab]

Not much to add on my part besides it passing through grills/windows. It should retain that to be a backup for shooting down carp/spiders/mobs through windows safely without running back to the armory to kill one mob. 

[stev]

5 hours ago, geeves said:

I would much rather prefer to add a weapon like the janitor's pest ray, that can be used to shoot carp, and add those to the surface checkpoint.

I'd be fine with having this as a replacement for the disruptors' window-passing. Having the disruptors pass windows can be a surprisingly big strategic advantage vs largely ballistic-based antags (e.g. merc, ling, ninja, sometimes raiders... actually, most antags are largely non-laser, thinking about it), as then even if you disable/outlast Sec's rifles and carbines they can just switch to sidearms and keep the positioning advantage.

[WickedCybs]

Not much to say on my part other than that the xenofauna pest gun thing could be neat. The ability to pass through windows for disruptors was a massive QOL for carp events though this also came at the cost of nuking antags from time to time. I know I didn't really want to bother going to the armoury most of the time.

[Kintsugi]

If disruptors are going to be nerfed this hard, you might as well remove them outright. Five lethal shots is a joke and to top it off they do peanut-tier damage. Hard pass on this PR, personally

[Wigglesworth Jones]

Echoing Schev, I'd prefer the lethal and stun shots to both have a capacity of 8 or so, especially considering that 20 damage is pretty mediocre at best. While I'd like disrupters to go through windows to deal with carp, I wouldn't be too distraught over seeing the ability removed - seeing as the ability to shoot through windows is also useful against antags.

[CampinKiller]

If you're going to lower ammo, you can't lower damage, and vice versa. Personally I'd leave the ammunition capacity where it is and lower damage. Otherwise as danse said, might as well give Sec back .45s, because both make them completely useless. Removing lethal shots thru windows also makes them useless for carp, dwellers, and many other hostile things that they were introduced to deal with without Sec having to break out the rifles.

[Snoopy11]

I'd rather see the disruptors removed than nerf'd.

Before the disruptors we had a taser, and a .45 pistols with rubbers.  14 shots with the pistol, (2 magazines) and x amount of taser shots.

The disruptors do not immediately get the lethal mode activation, so in the first fight antagonists have the upper hand, with this change security will suffer another huge drawback.

[niennab]

23 hours ago, geeves said:

I would much rather prefer to add a weapon like the janitor's pest ray, that can be used to shoot carp, and add those to the surface checkpoint.

I can get behind this. Even better if the weapons aren't locked behind a warden, which can usually mean a lot of running around chasing stationbounds, engineers or command for us lowpop losers.

[geeves]

Updated the PR, these values have been changed:

* Standard disruptors now have enough charge capacity for 8 shots in general, lethal shots no longer drain more.
* Stun disruptor shots now do 25 agony damage, down from 45.

 

Additionally, I added another PR that adds a xenofauna gun, capable of shooting through windows and killing carp and cavern dwellers (going to add spiders in a bit). When you shoot anything other than those with it, it just does 10 agony damage. Two of these spawn in the surface checkpoint.

https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/10700

[Carver]

I really don't think the agony damage should be nerfed so hard unless you want people to just use their batons instead.

[CampinKiller]

Agony shouldn’t be reduced so hard with that pain change as well

[NewOriginalSchwann]

This is a pretty harsh adjustment to disruptors, considering that the rubber bullets they replaced do 40 agony damage (+5 brute damage, for a total of 45) per hit. It seems as if this PR will simply render them a weapon that is used used until an antagonist appears, then is thrown away for ballistic pistols. I'm fine with reducing the burn damage, but 25 agony damage while losing a third of the disruptor's shots just renders it hopelessly ineffective.

[Kryostro]

Yeah this is really chopping the nearly nonexistent balls of security off. If anything, this pushes security to rush their most powerful equipment now if their sidearms went from 'zip zap' to 'buzz lightyear toy guns'. I can sort of understand the damage reductions, but that'd be an arguable change. The window/grille changes are the real squeezers, this just isn't it chief. 

[Faris]

Generally speaking, I find that when it comes to these kind of tools, that when you downgrade their capability to this degree, it tends to permit and even at times force people to escalate more harshly. 

The disruptors need to still be reliable as a stun tool to a reasonable degree otherwise people will escalate to more lethal or decisive methods. Making it too weak or in the eyes of many, useless, it would encourage others to jump past it. Handing out carbines and shotguns is a very simple thing to do especially since when disruptors are used also tend to allow the usage of those weapons.

 

[geeves]

this got merged, lemme know what your experience of using it and having it used on you is

[CampinKiller]

I'm really curious as to why it was merged despite overwhelmingly negative feedback on the idea

[ChevyChevron]

Haven't had a chance to play around with these yet for various reasons, but I can already tell you the changes are not going to be a positive one just when dealing with hostile mobs.

Pre-nerf, every officer had a weapon that could deal with a carp in two shots.  If you were careful and had half-decent aim, every single officer could take down eight carp.  Easy as pie.  For bonus points, the disruptor was moderately useful against spiders as well, giving officers who haven't yet gotten a weapon out of the armory the chance to do something about spiders threatening people.

Now, there are exactly two xenofauna-grade pest guns in the checkpoint, meaning other officers will have to acquire weapons from the armory to be useful in a carp situation; and those pest guns have thus far not proven useful in the slightest against spiders, meaning you will HAVE to bust out the armory just to be able to employ the traditional anti-spider tactic of "hide behind windows and shoot so the funny spiders don't toxin you out of the round or lay eggs in your chest."

Personally, I thought the pest guns would be a positive change at first since they were something we could hand off to cadets so they could feel useful during a carp situation.  Potentially, non-sec could bust in there and get their hands on them with just a crowbar if they needed them badly enough to bust open windoors.  Now the pest guns are just the solution to the invented problem of not being able to shoot through windows, and you still need the carbines if you need all four officers on carp duty.

Overall, this is going to lead to a lot of situations where officers are running around with armory gear when, pre-nerf, they would have been carrying just their standard kit.  Despite being a sec nerf, I can easily see this making life harder for antagonists due to the necessity of the warden handing out carbines when the disruptor would have been good enough before.

I am 100% against these changes.  If antagonists absolutely need their hands held in this way, consider letting disruptors shoot through windows and giving them a damage buff just against hostile mobs.  Not having to go to the armory to deal with carp was a massive quality of life change for officers and this PR has wrecked that.

[WickedCybs]

I would say that with the nerfs, the fire rate is probably fine with being increased since it is no longer essentially a better carbine that can be holstered. 

The main point of contention is probably going to be the lack of firing through windows. Unsure what my thoughts on this are at the moment but I'm leaning with it likely being a good mechanic to return considering the disruptors do less damage now. 

[Vulcenus]

So, I had the chance to use the disruptor and have it used on me after the nerf this past few days. I'll start with a positive note by saying that the disruptor nerf actually made me more careful in dangerous situations and actually consider engaging in a fight rather than pulling out my disruptor and chasing people like rabid dogs, because let's face it, disruptors were actually pretty decent before the nerf and unless you were facing a group of armed individuals, resulted in a clean cut victory for the security officer(s).

But at the current state, I think you might as well remove the disruptor entirely given that you're not able to stop or slown down an unarmored individual effectively (Read: Won't be able to, you're better off tackling the guy you're duking out with a stunbaton). I would suggest re-instating the .45 pistols back for the officer sidearms but given the attitude towards Security and their equipment on this server after a few successful rounds of dumb antagonists acting careless and getting curbed in 10 minutes because they couldn't read the room and failed to act accordingly, there's a high chance it would end up with a nerf for the .45 pistols as well, so I would rather not see them outside the Armory for the time being.

As for the carp situation, besides the obvious penalty of not being able to shoot through windows in lethal mode, you are no longer able to kill a carp in two shots with your disruptor. So you're better off using the xenofauna gun and when the charge's out, bash their head with the maglight. I've got two suggestions, for better or worse.

1) Get rid of sidearms in security lockers, disruptor or otherwise, and stop crying about security being too powerful every two weeks even though they've been getting nothing but nerfed for the past months.

2) Tweak the disruptor's both stun and lethal modes again, finding a sweet spot that's acceptable for the shooter and the person getting shot at.