Aticius Posted January 27, 2020 Posted January 27, 2020 At the behest of Mattlas, I make this thread! A link to the PR in question: https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/8092 As it stands, the backflow event is incredibly lethal if you are unlucky, AFK, both, or simply walking down the halls. About half the reagents in the list will result in a trip to medbay, and some of them will kill you, very dead, very quickly, such as Radium, Plant-B-Gone, Sulphuric Acid and Hyperzine; as you get dosed with 35 units of each of these, if in a cloud. If you're an Unathi, add Ethanol to this list; as you'll be in an alcohol coma if you don't keel over and go into a more permanent coma. The Backflow event has some harmless things too; flour, water, lube (to make people mad at janitors, chemists and scientists alike) and blood. This PR's goal is to avoid and lower amount of people who get sprayed in the face with Sulphuric Acid and get their heads melted or people who get sprayed with Plant-B-Gone and die in 15 minutes from cascading organ death that Medical can't treat as it stands. Thus, this PR removes the most harmful reagents, and keeps only minorly harmful and mess-making reagents, while adding more of the same. The reasoning behind this is also simple; People go AFK often, people like to roleplay. A scrubber melting everyone's head as they stand next to it, or poisoning everyone next to it is... a bit much. These aren't easy to avoid, either. Most of Aurora is in range of a Scrubber, simply because of how mapping must be done. The only way to avoid getting sprayed is to weld the scrubbers, which... sets a poor precedent for players, and would make no sense IC, and promote powergaming. This PR will make Janitor's lives worse. There will be messes. Maybe they can justify their access now.
Tomiix Posted January 27, 2020 Posted January 27, 2020 +1 Now my erp's won't result in my baguette melting off mid p.
BRAINOS Posted January 27, 2020 Posted January 27, 2020 god, yes, please. i've long hated viruses for their tendencies to break immersion, and this is another one of those random events that can be annoying at best, and completely immersion-shattering at its worst. imagine coming into work and fucking cyanide gas comes out of the AC vent. the guy sitting next to it fucking dies on the spot. it'd make national news. the building would be shut down faster than you can say, ''holy fucking shit,'' and there would be mass hysteria. why the hell is it so commonplace, then, on one of the galaxy's most advanced and prestigious research stations ever built?
Skyglazer Posted January 27, 2020 Posted January 27, 2020 +1. Sad you're removing the lube, though, it was hilarious. But if that's the price for peace, I will pay it.
Resilynn Posted January 27, 2020 Posted January 27, 2020 We need to code on glitter so people randomly get glitterbombed.
Aphelion Posted January 27, 2020 Posted January 27, 2020 Eeyup. Would be nicer if the backflow event was changed to come through disposals, and instead of deadly clouds of gas or funny clouds of lube you got showered with trash and random items. Some of which might actually be cool. Please note: Not my idea.
Alberyk Posted January 27, 2020 Posted January 27, 2020 I am against removing the following: cleaner - it does not deals toxing damage anymore mindbreaker - it does not hurt people at all space drugs - it does not hurt people at all lube - it does not hurt people at all, and can be avoided by walking around or using magboots holywater - it does not hurt people at all hyperzine - it does not hurt people at all ipecac - it does not hurt people at all While I am fine with lethal stuff being removed, it is also removing harmless and somewhat interesting reagents. Most of those replacement also don't really have any different effect at all, such as the food.
Aticius Posted January 27, 2020 Author Posted January 27, 2020 2 hours ago, Alberyk said: [Stuff] I'll go down your list with my reasoning for all of these! cleaner - to avoid scrubbers cleaning their own messes lube - The Lube reagent is toxic if ingested; Corn Oil functions the same but doesn't hurt the liver. holywater - Decults People, Frenzies Vampies, prevents wizards from teleporting onto the tiles, hurts constructs; A lot of Antagonist interference at random. hyperzine - 35u of Hyperzine is an overdose; this will cause toxin damage and possibly heart damage. ipecac/mindbreaker/space drugs: While not directly harmful, people won't know that IC, and all of these require a trip to medical to get back to status quo, generally.
Alberyk Posted January 27, 2020 Posted January 27, 2020 12 minutes ago, Aticius said: lube - The Lube reagent is toxic if ingested; Corn Oil functions the same but doesn't hurt the liver. Lube does not really deals any damage when ingested or when in spessmen's blood. It should be safe as corn oil.
FluffyBirb Posted January 27, 2020 Posted January 27, 2020 Okay but here is a thing: why not both? Back-flow has a chance to be either scrubbers or disposals
Doc Posted January 27, 2020 Posted January 27, 2020 This seems to be a knee-jerk reaction to someone dying at some point due to a scrubber blast, which alone inclines me to disagree with the suggestion, because "I don't want things to happen to me" is not a particular valid reason to remove aspects of the game; that said, this also seems to largely be an unintended result of brainmed changes. I would highly prefer that no reagents be removed and that instead, our currently more lethal poisons and acids be adjusted to apply lower amounts of reagents, to avoid the near-gauranteed-death they present. Before brainmed, all but the most lethal reagents really only ever resulted in a five minute trip to medical for some dylovene. The intent behind this mechanic is the same of many other random events currently; to encourage players from different areas to interact with other players in different areas they might not usually do so; fifteen toxin damage results in you talking to a paramedic or doctor for a few minutes when you never would have interacted with them; a broken camera in mining results in an engineer talking to cargo personnel they never would have met on their own; a cave dweller in the science sublevel does the same for security and some xenoarcheologists. Sometimes, these interactions are barebones and uninteresting; but when they are, they're incredibly brief. The scrubbers event should be adjusted to meet that same standard, not just completely gimped.
Doxxmedearly Posted January 27, 2020 Posted January 27, 2020 (edited) We should adjust the toxicity of the reagents or remove them from spawning (and possibly replace them with something else). I witnessed a plant-b-gone spray kill someone in, no joke, five minutes due to cascading organ failure. Medical could not save them by the time it took them to walk from the kitchen to there. That does not facilitate RP; it ruins it by rng nuking you from the round on that character. I don't believe it's knee-jerk to suggest we should change it after witnessing that, even if it was one instance, since that is a little ridiculous. Agreed with doc that it seems to be an unintended side-effect of brainmed, since before none of these things posed much of a danger of killing you. Toxicity levels of the reagents should be looked at IMO since now a spritz of plant-b-gone can ruin someone's organs. Fix the root of the chems or reduce the amount sprayed. For the PR as-is, you're removing a lot of interesting chemicals. And also trying to spawn cheese wheels? I gotta go with alb here, and I don't see much reason to remove space drugs, paint, luminol, or hot chocolate either. Too much "de-fanging" IMO. Edited January 27, 2020 by Doxxmedearly
Aticius Posted January 27, 2020 Author Posted January 27, 2020 4 hours ago, Alberyk said: Lube does not really deals any damage when ingested or when in spessmen's blood. It should be safe as corn oil. Oh! I thought lube was a child of toxin/ or similar. Back it goes. 1 hour ago, Doc said: The intent behind this mechanic is the same of many other random events currently; to encourage players from different areas to interact with other players in different areas they might not usually do so; Spontaneous, unavoidable, injuries are rarely good for interaction. Forcing players to interact via randomly throwing reagents into their bloodstream is not conducive to anyone's enjoyment of the game. This event is bad for achieving this goal in my opinion; there are better ways to get people to interact. 1 hour ago, Doxxmedearly said: We should adjust the toxicity of the reagents or remove them from spawning (and possibly replace them with something else). That's... The goal here? 1 hour ago, Doxxmedearly said: And also trying to spawn cheese wheels? I gotta go with alb here, and I don't see much reason to remove space drugs, paint, luminol, or hot chocolate either. Too much "de-fanging" IMO. Cheese Wheels is a meme, and a (failed) attempt to see if it was even possible. It won't be kept (as soon as I get around to pushing a commit.) Hot Chocolate does nothing; Not sure why it's on the list. Paint is toxic and Luminol has a chance to reveal dirty traitor secrets.
Shenaanigans Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 Hi I was the person whose organs all gave up on me after a face-full of plant'b'gone. Not super fun. Don't think anything short of teleporting to an operating table and having failing my liver and kidneys yanked out of my body would have save me. I'd be fine with having the straight up toxins removed from the list of scrubber possibilities, but from past experience dealing with people who got slammed with space drugs or alcohol made for some silly yet entertaining RP. As much as the announcement of a scrubber backsurge while playing medical is an "oh god" moment it does give the department some more to do, in the case of slight toxins, and won't generally derail a person's round for more than 10 minutes. Really just tweaking the toxicity of the reagents would be the best case scenario in my mind.
Alberyk Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 As someone that also suffered from plant b gone clouds, due to how brainmed works, it is a near death sentence. I am fine with removing chemicals that are deadly, but we should still strive to keep ones that can cause different effects.
Doxxmedearly Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 14 hours ago, Aticius said: That's... The goal here? Please don't misrepresent my post. The whole of it stated that I felt like it was more important to adjust reagent toxicity than to remove them from the scrubbers. I also stated that I disagreed with how you were accomplishing that goal because you're removing things that aren't deadly. I also don't see where paint is harmful to ingest or get in blood (for some reason?) Not toxic. Cleaner is fine - who cares if it manages to clean its own mess? Janitor lucked out. Hyperzine/ipecac is fine. Other medications might be fun to add, too. Holywater I actually do support the removal of because it's weird to even have in there; everything else can be explained as medical/science/kitchen waste, but holy water? Also I don't believe sterilizine is toxic either. Not sure why it's being removed.
Bear Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 Toxic chemicals need to go. There is nothing beneficial to it. It simply adds unwarranted injuries to characters. Its an incredibly inefficient system which makes no sense for 400 years in the future. Its a distraction to roleplay. If the devs dont remove this I will IR all of NanoTrasen!
Carver Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 +1 for the toxins and acids being gone. Their existence in this extremely common event demands that near-every crewman keep a gas mask or be ready to just fucking die at a moment's notice to NT's 'get sued and lose the case every time' lethal-scrubbers system.
Aticius Posted January 29, 2020 Author Posted January 29, 2020 (edited) A more up-to-date thread is here, as the PR has changed in scope: Edited January 29, 2020 by Pratepresidenten Linked the same thread.
BurgerBB Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 I support PRs that reduce the amount of toxins damage you can get from the scrubber event. I added additional chemicals for the scrubber event when we still had that old medical system, and getting hit with them wouldn't instantly crit or kill you. I support having those chemicals removed or the amount of chemicals being put in you reduced.
sonicgotnuked Posted February 5, 2020 Posted February 5, 2020 I've gotten jumped by ninjas and gassed by sulpheric acid before. It kind of places you in pain crit. While medical did help me, it took surgery to fix my broken lungs. These are things that are extremely lethal on brain med.
AmoryBlaine Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 What exactly do scrubber events add to the game, other than minor or major inconveniences, and why should should we keep them at all? As far as I am concerned, this is a start. And the end is just removing the whole thing, seeing as it literally exists to have the janitor clean up stuff that isn't player/character made such as tile dirt, and messes. If we NEED events, maybe they should actually be interesting and not exist to make me put on a mask or move to the corner of the room without a scrubber.
SatinsPristOTD Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 Will this be going anywhere? I ask because the PR for the new thread says the contributor left the server, however, that doesn't change how severe of a problem this is. A round today nearly had me die from being hit with Plant B-Gone. I mean, there's absolutely no way medical could have gotten to me in time to save me from 300 toxin damage that was gave to my character. Suffered severe brain damage, and stopped breathing. All within less than... five minutes.
Doc Posted February 8, 2020 Posted February 8, 2020 There is currently a brainmed rebalance PR that will improve the liver's resilience and in general drastically lower the lethality of toxin damage. As stated above, the problem is not inherent with the event itself, but brainmed's failure to account for it and its current general inbalance. Brainmed is being and will be balanced and adjusted for these kinds of things. -1, since I didn't say it earlier.
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