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Wage Gap


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This whole PR has to be the start of the April fools PR.

The wage gap itself is pretty dumb in my opinion, but I think my biggest problem is the whole "Marginalized races also are less likely to be selected for certain jobs, along with women." addition, which I think is one of the main issues with this PR.
 

13 hours ago, LordFowl said:

"If it's unimpactful, why bother?" Why not?

In high-pop hours, you are actively offsetting the chance for someone who was readied up to get a role they wished to play, just because they're playing the race/gender they enjoy as a player. Like, ignoring the political message or whatever, that just seems like a super off putting thing to do, its like telling players "Hey, you spent time on your application, backstory, and stuff, but you know that character you want to play? You can't this round because you're a female unathi/tajara/etc, and they're marginalized man, so that baldie 30 year old human male gets a higher roll in the chance modifier. get fucked." 

This isn't a PR I agree with, because it really just seems like something made to step on toes, or as some political statement. I'd really rather keep current-age politics out of a dumb top down space station simulator, because all this is going to do is start drama, and make us look like 'that guys'.

Big -1

Edited by ToasterStrudel
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17 hours ago, Scheveningen said:

And yet every professional I know on the subject of women's rights says it is still not enough. Pink tax, gender pay disparity, sexual harassment, sexual objectification by the media, inter-sectional issues of race and sex, under-representation in government, under-representation in the executive suite, under-representation in the news media, under-representation in the tech sector. Women are far more likely to shoulder household burden as a working mother than a working father would. Of the 800,000 people trafficked across international borders every year, 80% of those are women. Female soldiers face sexual harassment and threats of sexual assault every day. Women in general face greater risk of domestic violence and sexual assault, young women face inequality in high school sports. Retired women are twice as likely to face poverty than retired men. Women of all ages are also more likely than men to live below the poverty line.

There's no such thing as coincidence. If something is the way it is, something happened to make it that way.

Sources:
https://www.marieclaire.com/culture/a13816/things-that-cost-more-for-women/
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/04/09/gender-pay-gap-facts/
https://www.elle.com/culture/career-politics/news/a29539/black-women-equal-pay-day/
http://www.unwomen.org/en/what-we-do/leadership-and-political-participation/facts-and-figures
https://www.businessinsider.com/why-women-arent-getting-more-c-suite-jobs-2014-9#ixzz3jqzI7m2k
https://www.cnet.com/g00/news/women-in-tech-the-numbers-dont-add-up/?i10c.ua=1&i10c.encReferrer=&i10c.dv=19
http://business.time.com/2012/06/28/more-women-are-in-the-workforce-so-why-are-we-still-doing-so-many-chores/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3651545/
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/07/us/reports-of-military-sexual-assault-rise-sharply.html?_r=0
https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/06/girls-high-school-sports-inequality/396782/
https://money.cnn.com/2014/05/13/retirement/retirement-women/
http://www.un.org/womenwatch/directory/women_and_poverty_3001.htm

 

Right. I also don't like this PR, not only is actually not accurate. But its disprovable. Your base is that women earn 20 cents less (Most Left-Research claim it to be .23 cents on the dollar, so you're making light of the problem!). But where are we getting this from? .20-23 cents less than their male counterparts.. Why can we see this trend? Why does this INJUSTICE occur? 

 

Well we can see it a lot based on the United Statues Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics that women on average work less hours. (Oh God the Sky is falling, someone call a Doctor. My rights are hurt.) Why is this important? Our studies show that women earn less either way! The reason my dear cupcake that it is important. Is that women working less hours get paid less. To emphasize why this is not an issue, in the United States women have their own Bureau. (U.S Code Title 29. Chapter 2) 

In case you'd not like to look up, I'll quote it right here: (This will be U.S. Code Title 29. Chapter 2 Paragraph 13)

"It shall be the duty of the Women’s Bureau to formulate standards and policies which shall promote the welfare of wage-earning women, improve their working conditions, increase their efficiency, and advance their opportunities for profitable employment. The said bureau shall have authority to investigate and report to the Department of Labor upon all matters pertaining to the welfare of women in industry. The director of said bureau may from time to time publish the results of these investigations in such a manner and to such extent as the Secretary of Labor may prescribe." (Cornell)

 

Women in the US have their own department fighting for them, Along with EEOC, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. You know. The guys that make sure you're not getting discriminated against. To also quote the EEOC also:

"Under the laws enforced by EEOC, it is illegal to discriminate against someone (applicant or employee) because of that person's race, color, religion, sex (including gender identity, sexual orientation, and pregnancy), national origin, age (40 or older), disability or genetic information. It is also illegal to retaliate against a person because he or she complained about discrimination, filed a charge of discrimination, or participated in an employment discrimination investigation or lawsuit." (EEOC)

 

So now that we have established that there are programs in place to stop these issues, lets hear again from our friendly EEOC: 

"It is illegal for an employer to discriminate against an employee in the payment of wages or employee benefits on the bases of race, color, religion, sex (including gender identity, sexual orientation, and pregnancy), national origin, age (40 or older), disability or genetic information. Employee benefits include sick and vacation leave, insurance, access to overtime as well as overtime pay, and retirement programs. For example, an employer many not pay Hispanic workers less than African-American workers because of their national origin, and men and women in the same workplace must be given equal pay for equal work." (EEOC)

 

Wow! Wait.. In the United States there are legal issues with paying women less? ? Yes. The EEOC takes actions against companies that do horrible things! Its their job. 

 

But Pwner. Women still on average make less than men. Its not fair and not right. There is discrimination here and its justifies our political PR! I'll once again have to disagree. Based on the Bureau of Labor Statistics. In 2006, (Based on a study in 2007), The BLS found that men worked more hours. And as you'll see in the figure below during 2014:

image.thumb.png.e78d639d0fba929fc13c362d2235cb1f.png

 

The BLS kinda pushes that men work more hours. So is this discrimination or choice? Its choice.

As seen by The Atlantic and writer Kelly Field women often move into lower paying, less taxing jobs. Such as: cosmetology and child care. And you'll find in first world countries where they are more freedoms, women choose to move towards the Arts, Teaching, Care. While in 2nd or 3rd World Countries: India, China, women enter more into fields of Science and Engineering.

image.thumb.png.0e85dde9c8df64e50887096fc91efcce.png

(Hetching) 

Even the Washington Post even gave the idea of the wage gap Two Pinocchios. (As much as two wooden dildos can be trusted.) Another figure who debunks it is Steven Crowder, Owner and Director of the Podcast "Louder With Crowder." "Equal Pay" Feminist Myths Debunked... Thoroughly! *Watch at your own risk*  

And yes, I've checked my American Privilege but in any case. This PR is not factual and does not hold any water. I quoted Schev because I want his/her sources along mine. His/Her argument along mine. (I don't know so, CYB). 

 

So no, I agree with Toaster. Don't do this PR. Don't step on toes. Don't fuck people over. 

Sources I've used:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/29/chapter-2

https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2007/jul/wk1/art01.htm?view_full

https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2015/time-spent-working-by-full-and-part-time-status-gender-and-location-in-2014.htm

https://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/how-come-nobody-talks-about-the-gender-workplace-death-gap/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/04/02/the-equal-pay-day-factoid-that-women-make-78-cents-for-every-dollar-earned-by-men/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f72156815f50

https://hechingerreport.org/spite-growing-shortage-male-dominated-vocations-women-still-arent-showing/

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2018/01/why-are-women-still-choosing-the-lowest-paying-jobs/551414/

https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/pregnancy.cfm

Other sources:

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv17.pdf

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/your-right-accommodation-during-pregnancy.html

Edited by LordPwner
Had to change a factoid
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3 hours ago, Zundy said:

Regardless of what happens IRL in 2019 USA it doesn't make sense in setting. Species discrimination regarding wages is fine tho imo.

 

Right because unlike Gender, within our current lore setting there are basic and point-able reasons why certain species would impact the return of interest. It makes zero economic sense for (let me swap the equation) why men would be paid more if everyone at Nanotrasen is simply a number with measurable risk related to ROI.

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While I am personally a fan of the grey areas of the Auroraverse, there are certain topics that I'd prefer isn't approached. Yes conflict in the world is nice and from it derives opportunities for roleplay, it should be noted that some things should be untouched.

 

While it is possible that a gender gap isn't closed in the future, especially when we consider our own setting as it is one we control ourselves, the topic itself is fairly controversial and to some, parallel with unfortunate modern day equivalents. It wouldn't be a new precedent to deny this due to that as the lore and gameplay is centered around player enjoyment and sometimes things that affect characters can be uncomfortable to the players as well. We have a few rules centered around a few specifics as well.

 

I don't think this is a case where we should really focus on the chance of this gap still existing in the future but rather we should focus the potential of it projecting an aura that could push away people. As I said before, some things should not be added due to the parallels that exist.

 

Furthermore, when it comes to the author in addition to this, I have serious doubts about the intention of this implementation, but I'll leave it at that.

 

-1 

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This would certainly be interesting if the plan was to implement this alongside a persistent economy/bank down the line. Until then, I'm fairly ambivalent on it due to the fact that in-round accounts are already an RNG-based mess anyways. This is basically 'shrink their per-round wallet', rather than anything properly impactful.

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I have thought a bit about this and I do not believe that a hard gender based wage gap is a good idea to implement.

We have to keep in mind that what is in accessible via the ATM is not necessarily the payment the person receives for the shift.
In addition I believe that it is a given that there is a difference in gender discrimination between species. i.e. Unathi > Human > Skrell, which is not properly reflected in this PR.
(It would not make sense for a female Skrell to receive less pay given they lack of differentiation between genders)

 

However one thing that I could see being implemented is a slight preference for a certain gender in the job selection.
For example: provide a slight bonus for females trying to ready up as chef / bartender / nurse / ... and a slight bonus for males trying to ready up as engineer, security officer, miner, ...

But even the second option might not be needed. I am relatively sure that there is already a tendency for female chars to choose jobs that are traditionally done by women and for male chars to choose jobs that are traditionally done by men.
(I can probs pull some stats about that)

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Alright, time for some stats (just for the humans):

Since the start of 2019 a total of 10877 character-shifts have been played.
Out of those 7332(67%) have been played by males and 3545 (32%) have been played by females.

Since our total server population has a male-hang, the data has been normalised to a 50/50 distribution between males and females.

image.thumb.png.4ff95a52cf7ddd28af890a619196b714.png

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These statistics are hilarious and interesting.

While I haven't done full number crunching to compare it with the on wiki wages, it appears that if there was any wage disparity at present, it would be skewed towards putting female staff on top. Purely because of their occupational choices. ?

Well, regardless, I would leave this to be a "player controlled" variable. In the case of persistent economy or similar memes being implemented, it'd be fun to watch this evolve naturally.

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Guest Menown

As somebody that has a xeno with skeptical setting on their loyalty level, I await my new paycheck, given I already spawn with like 90-100 credits on average. If we allow prostitution so I may sell what little body I have to afford dinner, I'll be okay with this.

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