Feedback thread - a few new gun sprites

[kyres1]

https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/11113

This resprites some guns, pending feedback. More will be resprited gradually to match the style if this even goes through.

[Kintsugi]

New disruptors good, new laser rifle's fine, new shotgun is okay, new ion is meh, new blasters are good-ish (I don't like wood, but also the grip shading is inconsistent). Is the new gauss rifle still in this? because I like that too.

[NewOriginalSchwann]

Please allow me to apologize for any harshness in advance -I'm trying to provide my feedback honestly. With that disclaimer said, let's get into my opinions on these sprites.

The new disruptors are an outright improvement over the current sprites. The new laser rifle is bad, the shotgun is okay, the ion is bad, and the blasters are a mixed bag. I'll go into more in-depth reasoning below.

 

The disruptor is an improvement for one very big reason: readability. The previously tiny (literally 1x1) charge indicator is now much larger and can be more easily seen. They also change slightly when the gun switches to lethal mode, which is very cool. If I could bring only one sprite from this PR (yes I know it's three different guns, shut up I'm making a point) I would bring this one. It looks excellent.

 

But the laser rifle does not. It's been horribly scrunched up to the point where it looks like somebody took an actual gun and compressed its stock and part of its barrel. This is kind of hard to describe so let me use an image.

The above image is essentially what I see when I look at the two sprites side by side. This issue is also shared by the blaster sniper rifle (I forget the in-game name) and the ion rifle.

 

The shotgun is fine. It looks less like a gun from 1897 and more like one from 2463 which is good. It doesn't pop as much as the disruptor does, but it still looks good. I have no comments beyond that.

 

The ion rifle looks bad. It's committed the dual sin of being horribly scrunched up like the laser rifle is while also looking like a brick. It looks more like a toy than an actual weapon that's designed to kill exosuits. This is my least favorite sprite out of everything here.

 

The blasters are a weird mix of everything above. The pistol looks good, and resembles the NT blaster (which is good, since they're supposed to be the same gun in a way). The revolver looks kind of weird: the cylinder feels like it's way too small and it comes off as being a pistol with some funny bits glued onto it. The blaster carbine is way too small and honestly looks more like a pistol than the actual pistols do. The blaster rifle (sniper rifle?) is way too scrunched, like all the other long weapons.

 

In my conclusion I would like to state that these are, technically, well-made sprites. The person that made them obviously has an artistic vision for how these guns should work, and the ability to pursue this vision. But in my eyes this vision, as it currently stands, is not what I want to see as the Aurora's weaponry. I know Wezzy has raised concerns about their colors and general aesthetic clashing with security uniforms and I must agree with him. These guns - particularly the worst offender, the ion rifle, - look like they belong in a cartoon instead of in the hands of security.

[wowzewow]

Reiterated from my comments from the github.

 

Colors :

Change to white stray too far into the cartoon sci-fi side of things. We don't have to go full milspec like Bay, but gunmetal grey/black is better.

Oversaturation of colors also contribute to this problem.

Shotgun is inconsistent with the other guns. If there was to be a contrast, it is too muted to tell, and isn't explicitly obvious what the contrast is supposed to mean at a glance, since it is too generic to derive any context from it.

Proportions :

Triggers for most of the guns are inconsistent and problem lies with the ones that are disproportionately large.

Stocks for the laser rifle and ion are too short.

Ions and laser rifles are vertically stretched.

Ions, and disruptors especially, look very bulky and cartoonish.

Outlines :

Blaster pistol grips have no outline, inconsistent with the others.

Style :

It isn't a bad thing that these sprites are being updated to be more futuristic, however the stylisation is far too inappropriate for the tone for the server.

The cartoonish proportions as well as the oversaturated colors lend the tone to be more retro sci-fi rather than corporate dystopia.

This could work on a server like Goon, but we are a HRP server, and the tone is much more different.

 

 

[Butterrobber202]

The two posts above put into words what I could not. The Spirits themselves obviously had some effort but into them, but I don't like the general aesthetic. I genuinely prefer the standard black color we have now, and the ion rifle looks like it comes with a pre-installed toaster oven.

 

Additionally, the Blasters lose some of their... longness? They've been compressed and it takes away from the cowboy feel I like about them.

Edited February 12, 2021 by Butterrobber202

[geeves]

i like all of 'em, though the ion rifle could be slightly less vertical, i think all the sprites are an improvement over the old ones

[Connorjg1]

I will preface this with saying I do believe the effort and talent that has gone into these is substantial. You are a good spriter. 

 

 

I do however share above sentiments regarding the fact I don't like the aesthetic. It's a personal taste thing to be perfectly honest but I prefer our current more muted look. They are however very compressed which creates an odd image and makes them feel like they would be less... Impactful to operate? On a purely practical standpoint the new disruptor works better. The charge indicator would actually be readable so I enjoy that one. 

 

Really that's all. I believe they are good sprites I just don't believe they fit the aesthetic  I would prefer to see. 

[Sparky_hotdog]

I like the style of the disruptors, with the black grips and the bigger charge indicators being the best parts of the changes. However it feels like they're all one size too small, with the middle looking more like the far left on the originals (I don't know the terms for the different ones, apologies), the far right looking like the original middle, etc.

The rifle both looks a bit short and a bit tall, and I'm not sure how I feel about the white aesthetic. The disruptors have a bright colour scheme at the minute, so I didn't mind it there, but I do quite like the full black rifles we have right now.

The shotgun I like. It feels like it fits the setting much more than a 20th century style one for anyone other than maybe raiders. On top of that I feel like the shading has been done the best here of all the sprites as far as the white sections go

The ion is just... sorry, but it looks like a hand canon, not an ion rifle. It's dumpy and tall, and the white feels very blinding. I will say that the charge indicator having that 3D aesthetic is something I like however.

The blasters I don't have much of an opinion on. Most of them look better, even if they aren't drastically different. The only one I'm uncertain on is the revolver, and in particular the way it's barrel kind of juts out. Feels out of place to me.

[kyres1]

Most feedback addressed above.

Namely:

Ion resprited entirely to be sleeker.

Shotgun recolored to stand out more color-wise.

Trigger guard fucked with on the laser rifle.

Outlines were already fixed, but they were added to this layout which was missing in the main post.

Also, the thumper was added.

10 hours ago, wowzewow said:

Change to white stray too far into the cartoon sci-fi side of things. We don't have to go full milspec like Bay, but gunmetal grey/black is better.

White guns exist. I'm not sure how moving to a white palette constitutes cartoon sci fi. We already color-code entire corporations and monopolize their gear based off of singular colors, it is no surprise that gear made by certain corporations (NT, in this case) would carry their own scheme, especially in the hands of their own personnel.

Furthermore we literally discussed this at length. My reasoning is simple : white contrasts with security's majorly black color scheme.

"Kyres, security isn't black, it's X"

Okay, wear full body armor or play Zavodskoi and get back to me. You'll notice the vests+armguards are almost all majorly black, plus the most commonly used corporate uniform. Do I intend to change those, too? Maybe, but I doubt I'll change the scheme much.

10 hours ago, wowzewow said:

Stocks for the laser rifle and ion are too short.

They're over ten pixels long. They were also lengthened not once, but twice by maintainer request. I am not making them even longer.

10 hours ago, wowzewow said:

Ions, and disruptors especially, look very bulky and cartoonish.

Bulky is intentional, they're chunky energy pistols. More importantly, the smaller ones suck. A lot. The bigger ones are amazing, contrarily.

Don't see how they're cartoony at all when they match the same style as everything else, technically speaking.

10 hours ago, wowzewow said:

Ions and laser rifles are vertically stretched.

Arguably your problem worsens with the laser rifle resprite above. Personally I do not mind vertical guns - it exaggerates how bulky or dangerous these weapons are, or are meant to be, and makes them far more imposing.

10 hours ago, wowzewow said:

Triggers for most of the guns are inconsistent and problem lies with the ones that are disproportionately large.

Fixed above. Different size/proportion guns have proportionate triggers now.

10 hours ago, wowzewow said:

The cartoonish proportions as well as the oversaturated colors lend the tone to be more retro sci-fi rather than corporate dystopia.

We are not explicitly corporate dystopia. There's plenty of mixed elements in our setting. The station isn't all horrible and grim (despite its casualty rate). Saying we need to build up a corporate dystopia aesthetic is a humongous no from me.

 

[Wigglesworth Jones]

The new ion is a definite improvement, in my opinion. I'm personally a fan of the disruptors and shotgun the most. The laser rifle looks a little off to me, but it's hard to explain why. It seems kind of stubby? I like how the blasters look as well, for the most part.

[DeadLantern]

After Kyres's several modifications, it's clear that the quality of these sprites far surpasses the sprites we have in game, despite any minor quibbles anyone has over the new sprites. I see no reason as to why we should not add these in the game. The blasters and shotgun look especially nice, in my opinion.

Edited February 12, 2021 by DeadLantern

[Butterrobber202]

Most of my complaints were addressed, ignoring my dislike for the aesthetic.

 

The only remaining complaint I have is that the blasters still all look like snub-nosed guns. Like

 

Spoiler

versus
 

Spoiler

 

[Zelmana]

I'd prefer to think that our firearms are not all purchased from the same vendor-- so perhaps having different color schemes / materials is a good thing?
I hardly imagine every company using the same white polymer for a majority of the gun.

[Faye <3]

the off white of the new shotgun is slick af. i like it. the ion is definitely improved. i agree that the lasrifle is a little stubby but honestly i do not think there is much that can bed one abt that? it's a v. small complaint overall i like them

[Omicega]

I didn't have time to comment on the originals, but I'll leave my two cents on the updated sprites now.

The new disruptors are very good. Initially I thought they were worse, but having slept on it and looked at the old disruptor sprites again I realised I must have just been very tired. I like them a lot!

The new laser rifle I'm not sure about. Something is off about it -- I don't think the shiny white/chrome colour does it for me. It also looks very chunky. I think the sprite is too tall overall, even if the length is fine.

I love the shotgun. It looks simple yet suitably futuristic.

The initial new ion was, to be blunt about it, dreadful -- but the revised version looks really sleek. It's my favourite sprite out of the lot now, when before it was easily my least favourite. Thanks for taking the feedback so far on board regarding it, Kyres!

The blaster and thumper sprites look... okay, I guess. I don't really have much to say other than that they're like sidegrades to the old sprites. I think you're trying too hard to stick with the old sprite designs with these and limiting the redesign possibilities, because the old blaster/thumper sprites really aren't that good anyway. I'd like to see you be a bit more adventurous with them.

tl;dr these sprites could be merged as-is following the revisions and only the laser rifle would look out of place, at least in my book

[Omicega]

1 hour ago, kyres1 said:

white contrasts with security's majorly black color scheme.

"Kyres, security isn't black, it's X"

Okay, wear full body armor or play Zavodskoi and get back to me. You'll notice the vests+armguards are almost all majorly black, plus the most commonly used corporate uniform.

I can't really agree with this, though. Zavodskoi tides aside, the vanilla NT security uniform is white and blue. Idris security (I know right) tends to be turquoisey-teal with a lot of white on the uniform underneath, and EPMCs have bluish-white-grey highlights all over them as well. I don't think of black as being security's aesthetic colour; it's blue, if anything, since that colour shows up a hell of a lot more. This seems like a weird way to defend your point here.

Edited February 12, 2021 by Omicega
i can't spell or quote properly apparently

[Carver]

I like the Disruptors, I like the Blasters. These keep a similar aesthetic to the older sprites without looking wacky in difference.

But I very, very heavily dislike the Lasers, Shotguns and Ions. To keep my argument short, I will draw comparisons to the Beam Weapons-tier of X-Com: EU.

Spoiler

They're just too bulky and plastic-looking, and look like toys as a result. The shotgun in particular I especially dislike, as I see no reason to take an old+realistic design and give it a futuristic sprite when it's just a simple pump-action with no bells or whistles.

[Kintsugi]

I personally prefer the white shotgun to the off-white shotgun. Off-white looks weird and inconsistent 

[Sparky_hotdog]

Going to start with the good, that being that the new ion looks sick. It manages to capture the "this is a powerful, complex weapon" the old sprite had going for it, while adding the white aesthetic.

13 minutes ago, DanseMacabre said:

I personally prefer the white shotgun to the off-white shotgun. Off-white looks weird and inconsistent 

I'm with Danse here. Considering the rifle, ion and disruptors are all a pretty stark white (which I like, feels very sleek) the slightly off-white is strange. I get that people might argue (and have above) that not all the guns need to have the same colour scheme, as they could come from different suppliers, but I think the simplicity of them matching is better. It's not like we've ever said this is the Zavodski pump-action Mk4 (You can tell I totally know how guns are named) because that would likely just confuse people more than was necessary.

The rifle to me still looks like it would be more inline with the carbines than the rifle; It's shorter than I'd expect from a rifle. I originally thought this was to do with the stock, but on a better look it would say the barrel could be longer, but also bare in mind the rifle is supposed to be dual-wielded, and that doesn't look ergonomically designed to be gripped with two hands to me.

The disruptors still all look like they're a size down from what they are to me, but that's my only complaint. I really like how there is more that changes between stun and lethal than just the light colour.

The blasters are still pretty good, though the revolver cylinder looks a little high I want to say? If you're not going to have it take up the whole part of the gun like the old one (which I like) then I feel like it should be more in line with the rest of the barrel.

[kyres1]

Updated .45 and ecarbine sprite by player request, to make the whole armory consistent.

[geeves]

i think the white looks a lot better than the dirty off-white

[Aphelion]

On 12/02/2021 at 15:26, kyres1 said:

https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/11113

This resprites some guns, pending feedback. More will be resprited gradually to match the style if this even goes through.

I like all of these except for Ion, laz and Shotgun. The Ion looks like a BFG, and I honestly prefer the wooden shotgun, I'd be okay with going for white plating on the tactical shotgun, but the regular shotgun has a nice rustic quality that makes it appealing. 

Just as a matter of personal taste, universal color pallets, where, say. Every weapon has the same white, or black seems to get to me. They feel almost more like nerf guns, instead of actual weapons, when they all have plastic solid-coloured panelling and chonky looks, the laser rifle has a very big nerf vibe, for some reason.

Edit: Should have skimmed more of the thread, I dig the way the Ion is now looking.

Edited February 13, 2021 by Aphelion

[Scheveningen]

I think all of them seem completely fine, kyres.

[MattAtlas]

I'm a fan of all the new ones.

[WickedCybs]

Like it overall. I'm more of a fan of the full white shotgun over the off-white one though.

.45s finally changing is very good.