stop sweeping maintenance the second the round starts

[SatinsPristOTD]

It gives them something to do. And I don't honestly care if it "draws attention and can backfire." That's the beauty of interacting with the crew, as an antag. We have way to many antags that try to be 100% "no contact, full frontal assault.".

Security sweeping that stuff up just makes you seek out the shadier people. Use their exploitable against them. Threaten them. Be an actual antag instead of "cause chaos and be destructive." Interact with the crew. Don't rely on maintenance tunnels to fulfill.

As for tools, the tool storage area is accessible, and if you have a good reason ICly, the HoP may grant you access to other areas. (Like Nawfal's excuse to get into EVA.)

[Nekonyan123]

I'm against this because it makes sense for security to inspect the tunnels. Those are less-crowded places of the station that are usually a good ground for shady activities and hazards such as blobs. It just makes sense for someone in charge of asset protection inspecting those tunnels along all of the station. If a player is doing this maliciously, then they should get bwoinked, but I don't get it why someone that is ICly in charge of protecting the station and the crew should not inspect the tunnels; it is rather obvious if you gonna find contraband you gonna find it there, and furthermore, it is to each player's choice to decide wich is contraband and wich is not. If you would find an armor vest or a box of granades in a building site? Or in your workplace back alley? I mean, as a sec player, I do not collect EACH contraband piece, I usually take just the thing that screams "I SHOULD NOT BE HERE", like the armor or a balaclava. This kind of hate towards sec player should stop: if you think someone is breaking the rules report them, if not, just let them be; you can't force other players to play the game the way you want them to play.

[Carver]

By this logic all crew should be discouraged from looting maintenance, no? It's surely no better if cargo, the janitor or random engineers are doing it and 'denying antags the items'. Or perhaps this thread is merely a targeted jab at a department the OP dislikes.

[N8-Toe]

I'm for stopping sec from sweeping maintenance for three reasons.

1. it devalues maintenance, it is a dark, pipe and wiring filled place, why would security want to be poking around there IC? why would anyone who's job isn't to be there want to be mucking around in there. if you think  someone should be inspecting maintenance, it should be the maintenance people. not Security.  

2. I honestly feel it is metagaming, it is going into maintenance to deny access to resources to antags or other crew, and just  kills what I think is a unique thing. 

3. Security has things to do at shift start, its called roleplay. Talk to each other, talk  to the  other people who don't have a "startup" procedure. maybe hold a briefing?

 

[Natiform]

1 hour ago, Nekonyan123 said:

I'm against this because it makes sense for security to inspect the tunnels. Those are less-crowded places of the station that are usually a good ground for shady activities and hazards such as blobs. It just makes sense for someone in charge of asset protection inspecting those tunnels along all of the station. If a player is doing this maliciously, then they should get bwoinked, but I don't get it why someone that is ICly in charge of protecting the station and the crew should not inspect the tunnels; it is rather obvious if you gonna find contraband you gonna find it there, and furthermore, it is to each player's choice to decide wich is contraband and wich is not. If you would find an armor vest or a box of granades in a building site? Or in your workplace back alley? I mean, as a sec player, I do not collect EACH contraband piece, I usually take just the thing that screams "I SHOULD NOT BE HERE", like the armor or a balaclava. This kind of hate towards sec player should stop: if you think someone is breaking the rules report them, if not, just let them be; you can't force other players to play the game the way you want them to play.

this.

i'm completely fine with sec doing a sweep, it makes sense icly for the above stated reasons. plus it's just something i'm used to now, and as a cargo main i tend to get little to no interaction with sec in a standard round (since we're on opposite sides of the station) but i do know that i can expect sec to do their sweep, and i always open the maintenance door in the warehouse while i'm working to say hi and have a little interaction and rp with them. its just a nice way to start the shift, honestly.

 

 

39 minutes ago, Carver said:

By this logic all crew should be discouraged from looting maintenance, no? It's surely no better if cargo, the janitor or random engineers are doing it and 'denying antags the items'. Or perhaps this thread is merely a targeted jab at a department the OP dislikes.

and yeah, this also brings up a valid point. i can see security or maintenance being in the gd maintenance tunnels, but unless you're antag i don't see a lot of reason for it. tbh we have kind of an issue in the cargo department where people sign up for cargo tech just so that they have maintenance access to dick around in there the entire round and find goodies and do absolutely no cargo work. it's something i'm currently trying to work out icly though so i won't go into too much detail here and derail the topic. just wanted to said that it's a good point to talk about as well.

[Alberyk]

I have other proposal.

Allow assistants to have maintenance access, so they can raid the tunnels before security does.

[Carver]

32 minutes ago, N8-Toe said:

2. I honestly feel it is metagaming, it is going into maintenance to deny access to resources to antags or other crew, and just  kills what I think is a unique thing. 

And what exactly justifies other crew having more right to said resources? Because they're not wearing blue? Engineers have all the resources they require in their own department. Cargo only has maintenance access for making deliveries and checking on disposals (contrary to popular belief, nowhere in their job requirements are they required to collect and distribute random shit like junkyard dwellers). The Janitor has no logical need of anything other than cleaning supplies, which he already has, and tools, which everyone has. If an antag, or any of the aforementioned crew really want a knife, they have incredibly easy access to the resources to make it regardless of what spawns in maintenance.

Perhaps if contraband like drugs, weapons and the like didn't spawn in maintenance, it wouldn't be so readily checked. Said spawns give an IC implication that the station has issues with smuggling and drug deals, logically encouraging Security personnel to check around and ensure this business is discouraged.

[Brutishcrab51]

4 minutes ago, Alberyk said:

I have other proposal.

Allow assistants to have maintenance access, so they can raid the tunnels before security does.

I'm unironically for this.

[Snoopy11]

Same for the assistant access, it was one of the more fun things I used to do, as an assistant, Maint prowling.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

@Alberykmake the sec lockers farther away to make sec take longer to buy us time

[Scheveningen]

I'd say give everyone maint access. Only seems fair.

[AmoryBlaine]

There should not be combat knives, grenades, ect in maintenance.

[Screemers]

I'm also in favor to add an internal security rule to avoid maintenance search without probable cause. 

I don't play security a lot, but I've seen some people just rushing to run in maintenance running while dragging a crate to get as much possible stuff as possible before someone else can put their hands on it. That just yell Metagaming to me.

At least these days there don't seem to be the mandatory sweep order that I have seen in the past.

[zyymurgy]

Yeah, you find a lot of shit in maintenance that makes you wonder what psychopath "loot fairy" was running around the shift before yours. It's just random stuff thrown everywhere and some of it's dangerous.

Keep the silly costumes and random stuff you find back there, but please replace the weapons with tools or something more reasonable to locate back there. If you want there to be a weapons cache in maint, it would be cool if it was randomly spawned somewhere, but having knives and pills and shit lying around is a little much.

[Brutishcrab51]

Security sweeps maintenance because grenades, weapons and armor spawn in maintenance. There is no reason Security should avoid maintenance when other people don't have to. That is biased and stupid. Anyone supporting that position should either compromise and remove maintenance access for everyone without probable cause, or agree that this is heavily targeted towards Security in specific, and so, biased and stupid.

[SatinsPristOTD]

10 hours ago, Screemers said:

yell Metagaming to me.

It's not metagaming if they know it is consistent every shift they work. Telling them to not canon something as mundane and basic as this really puts a damper on what we can and can't canon.

As stated before, security details always search the place before they open it to the public. Security at hotels do use the "tunnels" of the facility to get from point a to point b faster, and without causing alarm or panic to the customers.

It makes no sense for Security to not check these places.

[Zundy]

It's not canon that items in the tunnels get refreshed after every shift by some mysterious stranger. It's a gameplay mechanic. Sweeping it is metagaming imo. 

[CampinKiller]

38 minutes ago, Zundy said:

It's not canon that items in the tunnels get refreshed after every shift by some mysterious stranger. It's a gameplay mechanic. Sweeping it is metagaming imo. 

How is it not canon if it happens every time? Are the bats in the warehouse randomly spawning not canon? What about carp attacks? Those are just gameplay mechanics after all

[geeves]

Just now, CampinKiller said:

How is it not canon if it happens every time? Are the bats in the warehouse randomly spawning not canon? What about carp attacks? Those are just gameplay mechanics after all

Carps and blobs do not canonly occur as often as they do. As a blob can destroy a large chunk of a station. Carp swarms happen far less often than they actually happen. The rates are just tuned higher to make gameplay fun.

[Zundy]

What Geeves said. Otherwise not only should sec be allowed to sweep but they should lock down maintenance at round start, equip lethals and then sweep maintenance to catch this lunatic or organised syndicate that is loading up maintenance with contraband inbetween shifts. 

It's supposed to be random detritus that's mechanically randomised for our pleasure. Not literally purposefully littered canonically by a mysterious person/group. I mean sure, if staff want to canonise that then I'm cool with it but that implies criminal shenanigans.

[Screemers]

1 hour ago, Zundy said:

What Geeves said. Otherwise not only should sec be allowed to sweep but they should lock down maintenance at round start, equip lethals and then sweep maintenance to catch this lunatic or organised syndicate that is loading up maintenance with contraband inbetween shifts. 

It's supposed to be random detritus that's mechanically randomised for our pleasure. Not literally purposefully littered canonically by a mysterious person/group. I mean sure, if staff want to canonise that then I'm cool with it but that implies criminal shenanigans.

That was pretty much my though, to say that it is cannon that the maintenance tunnels are always full of contraband at the beginning of each shift, would imply that between each there is someone that purposefully goes into the tunnels to drop all this stuff. 

It's a game mechanic in place to help some type of antags and going directly against it pretty much remove it's purpose. If this is the way people are acting about it, we might as well just remove it. 

Myself and many other players often play dumb on purpose about a lot of mechanics due to game limitation so things can progress, I think that maintenance contraband should be one of these too.

[SatinsPristOTD]

1 hour ago, Zundy said:

implies criminal shenanigans.

Which we've done in lore and events, and even approve of characters doing shady criminal things.

It's already.... a known fact Aurora has a bit of a seedy side. It's why the joke that "Upsilon is higher class" exists.

[zyymurgy]

When the game mechanics conflict with what is supposed to be canon in the lore I find it harder to suspend my disbelief for the lore of the station ICly. If I get shocked by electropacks in the warehouse or attacked by bats or manhacks; if I find knives and pills and brass knuckles in maintenance every single round; if the station gets swarmed by carp; if I'm told none of that is supposed to be canon just because it's a "game mechanic"; how am I supposed to take anything as canon when the whole *GAME* is *mechanics*?

So like, it must be accepted that something has happened to put these items in maintenance ICly and we have IC motivations for going and getting those things, and it must be accepted that OOCly people know that shit's in there and they're gonna go do something about it.

If you genuinely want the way people interact with maint to change then the game should probably be changed to reflect the ideal state. What purpose do those items serve in maint for gameplay and what motivation is there for them to be present in lore?

There is plenty of IC and OOC motivation for security to go check out the tunnels even if they *didn't* know contraband is in there because it's a dark dingy place with no security cameras. I've worked security before. Routine checks of unmonitored areas are completely within reason.

Edited October 11, 2019 by zyymurgy

[Doxxmedearly]

I don't think it's terribly hard to suspend your disbelief that the station isn't half-destroyed by a blob or swarmed by mutant spiders/fish every single day. 

[zyymurgy]

15 minutes ago, Doxxmedearly said:

I don't think it's terribly hard to suspend your disbelief that the station isn't half-destroyed by a blob or swarmed by mutant spiders/fish every single day. 

It's easy enough to handwave off stuff like "oh the station got bombed" and "oh the carp broke in again" when it happens infrequently but when it's every single round, and we're supposed to act like it's a normal workplace and nothing bad ever happens, yes it's a little difficult for me. I find myself referencing events that happened "last month" and trying to minimize and be vague because there's so much that happens on station that I don't want to make non-canon because it involved heavy RP and developed my character. Piracy exists in Tau Ceti. Carp exist. It had to be canon that at least some of the time these things really happen, or else the game mechanics directly conflict with what is supposed to be canon, and I find it hard to suspend my disbelief about it.

It's an entire can of worms that I don't want to derail with so I'll repeat the point I do want to make:

It hurts suspension of disbelief to have a bunch of random dangerous garbage strewn around maint with no obvious reason for it to be there IC and in lore.