Move Captain's Spare somewhere less accessible.

[AmoryBlaine]

The current location is laughable. It's open to nearly every antag, with such a tiny amount of actual danger in acquiring it. At the very least, put it in the Captain's locker, or perhaps the AI core, on the table with the circuit boards. Make it a bit harder to aquire for Mercs, Raiders, Ninjas and Wizards- all of whom can currently B-line it with nearly zero pushback.

[Cnaym]

The AI core seems like a really really bad place during malf or when the AI got hacked.

Captains have started to hide that thing lately, which 90% of the time fucks up the rescue effort when the captain is hostage or dead so that's no way to go about it either.

I would suggest an emergency swiper for command cards to upgrade them to captain level, while announcing it to the station. Would be a lot louder and require you to get your hands on at least one command ID. Problem with that is that on lowpop without command the crew (and antags) would be screwed.

Another option I would see as viable is giving antags a free agent ID card. It would make sense for them to hide it in their pockets or so when going to work and reduce the need to steal the actualy physical copy (which imho is bad sportsmanship toward other antags anyway, also not really a smooth move to shred it so that the crew is trapped, but my definition of fair play can vary from the antags from time to time).

Last but not least: REMOVE?

May sound radical, but antags would be forced to interact with doors more. A good corridor to run away, that is prepared with hacked doors that the AI can't just bolt is a really efficent way to improve on the planning of antags. It would also get rid of the "emag rush" that we see almost every round through the bridge, because now you would get your access somewhere else and then only enter the bridge to go for station funds or the consoles / AI.

Overall very open to ideas of changing this. I always wondered why you would lay that thing out in the open like that ( I get the OOC motivation, but it makes it really really easy to get). A forcefield in front of it, like the emergency button might also work imho.

[Carver]

15 minutes ago, Cnaym said:

Another option I would see as viable is giving antags a free agent ID card. It would make sense for them to hide it in their pockets or so when going to work and reduce the need to steal the actualy physical copy (which imho is bad sportsmanship toward other antags anyway, also not really a smooth move to shred it so that the crew is trapped, but my definition of fair play can vary from the antags from time to time).

Near-every off-station antag gets a free Agent ID. They still steal the spare anyways. Even with how trivial it is to also just make a new ID with the spare, you still see on-station antags stealing it anyways.

17 minutes ago, Cnaym said:

Last but not least: REMOVE?

Disagree on the sole basis of the Captain-level access being more or less required to do interesting things with the comms console. If said console was made easier to unlock all functions on (mostly for antags who want to e-mag it to contact the syndicate, partially for command who may also want to use said console's extra features), then I'd say 'sure why not'.

[GreenBoi]

It's meant to be easily accessible because it exists as auxiliary all-access. You can even get to it from space. Though, I get where you're coming from and I think the spare should be placed inside the Command Bunker- in a glass case, inside of a 2x1 room.

 

Ideally, in such an emergency where a head would need the spare, they would run down to the safe bunker, walk into the small room holding the spare and break the case to get it. Maybe even add a Bluespace Inhibitor

[sonicgotnuked]

3 hours ago, Cnaym said:

Captains have started to hide that thing lately, which 90% of the time fucks up the rescue effort when the captain is hostage or dead so that's no way to go about it either.

Unless there is a good reason, the only place a captain SHOULD place the spare is either on themselves or in their safe. Someplace dumb like the toilet would be rather bwoinkable unless its for good reason.

 

3 hours ago, Cnaym said:

May sound radical, but antags would be forced to interact with doors more. A good corridor to run away, that is prepared with hacked doors that the AI can't just bolt is a really efficent way to improve on the planning of antags. It would also get rid of the "emag rush" that we see almost every round through the bridge, because now you would get your access somewhere else and then only enter the bridge to go for station funds or the consoles / AI.

It would not be fun to be forced to interact with every single door. It sometimes takes three seconds for security to shoot you up regardless. Plus people generally don't even give you their ID if you simply ask it. "Why should I give you my ID? It is working fine" Hacking doors takes time and will be pretty noticeable when you're standing by the vault for a minute with a multi-tool in hand for example.

Plus... hacking the AI with no access and not science just sounds like a bad time in general. Unless your ninja because cloak is a powerful meme.

Anyway, I support not removing it. People need it for legit reasons when there is no command or there is only one command person. I do support moving it to an emergency location such as the bunker. Maybe make it a separate room with turrets and motion sensors that have general command access. High danger high reward. Command is dead? You better be making a plan to get that spare.

[Nantei]

I don't think access should be a super difficult thing to get. It's bum-rushed because it is so vital to not getting trapped and captured. It is a genuine pain in the ass to move around and do antag things without the spare. I am open to moving it, but it shouldn't be heavily guarded. Bonus points if it is in an area that the Captain should have no logical reason other than powergaming to move it. Because boy is that obnoxious.

Shove it in the Command Bunker where I am fairly certain all command members have access, but it is more out of the way and reasonable than on a desk.

[Scheveningen]

I generally make it a point to learn the wires of every airlock but it's a major point of convenience to have all-access as an antagonist anyway, as you won't always have time to spend 5 seconds on each individual airlock to cut ID scan/AI control and then screw the panel back on and walk through.

I don't mind where the spare ID is moved to, so long as it's in a place that has a mild challenge to push through that also does not border on the impossible. I do think it is too easy to get through right now.

Edited November 17, 2019 by Scheveningen

[SatinsPristOTD]

@Yonnimer can vouch for this, it took me less than a minute to steal the Captains spare one time, completely undetected. If you time it right, you've got 3 doors in your way to crypto before in and out. It's honestly too easy to steal. It's not even a challenge anymore.

So sure, move it. The bunker isn't a bad idea for storing it. Sec cameras don't see the inside of the bunker, so Annette The Boring Officer can't just "casually flip through cams" and go "Oh no, the spares missing."

yet, the bunker is a bit more of a challenge to get in to (if you don't know the ridiculously easy back entrance), and gives more of a thrill to seek the object.

[Azande]

Just put the spare in the vault.

[Pratepresidenten]

Command bunker is a nice touch, I agree. The camera-lessness works as a counter for snoopy sec and AIs.

It also allows for more sneaky/mystery plays. "HOW DID YOU GET HERE??" or "WHERE DID THEY GO??"

It has my blessing of change ?

[wowzewow]

Here's the thing though, the reason why it's so easy to get the captain's spare it's because we boiled down how to get it extremely quickly and efficiently, since we *always* had the same map forever.

This was probably an eventuality at some point.

Although, spicing it up wouldn't hurt, that's just the thing with the captain's spare.

[geeves]

make it spawn randomly in one of a few defined places, and only the captain knows where, ehehehehehe

[Pratepresidenten]

2 minutes ago, geeves said:

make it spawn randomly in one of a few defined places, and only the captain knows where, ehehehehehe

ALSO SMORT!

I never really thought about dis

Edited November 17, 2019 by Pratepresidenten

[Scheveningen]

1 hour ago, geeves said:

make it spawn randomly in one of a few defined places, and only the captain knows where, ehehehehehe

that's clever. put them into ID-locked cubby holes that can be hacked/emagged open but some of them have bombs instead of the spare ID instead eheheheheh

[Soultheif96]

6 hours ago, Pratepresidenten said:

Command bunker is a nice touch, I agree. The camera-lessness works as a counter for snoopy sec and AIs.

It also allows for more sneaky/mystery plays. "HOW DID YOU GET HERE??" or "WHERE DID THEY GO??"

It has my blessing of change ?

I am going to agree for once on this change. I would advise it being moved to the bunker interior, placed into a glass case. Only the command personnel and stationbounds know of this place. It would allow at least a lot more effort to get the Spare ID, and if you do acquire it, you earned it.

Additionally with that, remove cameras from the bunker as a whole (Entrance included) it would reduce the amount of “I can see in here, oh, someone is attempting to get the ID, time to bolt this door.” as an AI. 

It would allow the Captain to worry about one less thing and not have on their mind into it 24/7 till it is either stolen or worse.

Edited November 17, 2019 by Soultheif96

[Nantei]

11 hours ago, Azande said:

Just put the spare in the vault.

Putting anything into the vault makes it a never for non-antagonists, and a mostly never for everyone that isn't a group antagonist. You had may as well remove it if you were going to do that. The only way into the vault without getting shot is with Captain level access.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Nantei

[N8-Toe]

I think it is good where it is. Breaking into the captains office undetected is difficult. we shouldn't be placing more hurdles on antagonists to get tools they may need. placing it in the vault or bunker makes it so anything short of a nuke team isn't ever going to get it. 

[Nantei]

2 hours ago, N8-Toe said:

I think it is good where it is. Breaking into the captains office undetected is difficult. we shouldn't be placing more hurdles on antagonists to get tools they may need. placing it in the vault or bunker makes it so anything short of a nuke team isn't ever going to get it. 

I agree on the vault, but you're straight wrong about the bunker. The bunker is actually arguably easier and safer for the antagonist to reach. Less camera coverage, can be accessed via maintenance tunnels. There's also a really easy back-door to get to it through. Putting it in the bunker is arguably a straight buff to antagonists that are smart. Captain's have no good reason to move it from the bunker so we should see less of that obnoxious crap, and security cannot see the bunker so you're very safe while you do it.

[NerdyVampire]

I'm on the edge on whether it should stay or go. With it being in the captains office it is easy to get, but it is also easy for the crew to notice missing, alternatively in the bunker it is more easy apparently, but no-one will notice it is gone ?

[SatinsPristOTD]

We could always look at this from an RP perspective.

So far we have the arguments of:

1)Captains office is too easy
2)Bunker is too easy
3)Crew can see the ID is missing easily.

Well, we can't really fix one or two. If an antag wants that ID, they'll get it. I don't care if you stick it at the Alpha Solar Bank. They'll find a way to it.

But we CAN fix the ID being seen by crew problem. Make it where ID's can be put in filing cabinets. Start the ID off in the Captains filing cabinet.
Put it in the Captains locker.
Stick it in a briefcase

There's a lot of ways to "hide" the ID, yet still make sense RP-wise.

[Doxxmedearly]

On 17/11/2019 at 14:20, geeves said:

make it spawn randomly in one of a few defined places, and only the captain knows where, ehehehehehe

 

2 minutes ago, SatinsPristOTD said:

But we CAN fix the ID being seen by crew problem. Make it where ID's can be put in filing cabinets. Start the ID off in the Captains filing cabinet.
Put it in the Captains locker.
Stick it in a briefcase

This combination would be pretty good IMO. It's the captain's spare- it should still BE in the captain's office somewhere. 

[Screemers]

Other alternative solution similar the ones mentioned, put the ID in a safe in the Captain's office. It will be a but harder too get without being impossible and unless someone go verify the safe door directly they won't know if it was open or not.

[Soultheif96]

Right. so I devised many ways to hide the Captain's Spare ID inside the Captain's Office. I will list them out from expected to least expected.
 

• Safe - Password provided to next available trustworthy staff.
• Briefcase - Password provided to next available trusthworthy staff, but I prefer to place the authentication disk there instead and label it "The Football" for reference point.
• Fax Machine - It is a click and a half away, easy to acquire the ID.
• Finance Machine - It is a click and a half away, but you also get to see every financial account there is in turn.
• Captain's Console - It is also a click and a half away, hop the table and grab, done and done.
• Captain's Quarter's table. - Just behind yet another door, still in view.
• Under the bed. - Who doesn't hide things under their beds, but now you are purposely hiding it.
• Wrapped by wrapper and left there. - Thanks for wrapping me my gift, sincerely, the antag.
• Plant - Purposely hiding it once more, but what can I say, it is right there too.
• Donut Box - Hiding in plain sight, no harm, no foul. Enjoy a donut too. (I am bound to do this once, given hilarity it would provide.) Turns out to be proven false.
• Toilet - Did you know you can lift the cistern with just a crowbar? Now you do, thanks for getting the ID wet and smelly, prick.
• SAT, up the ladder only. - I mean ... sinister "Authorized Personnel Only" screams to me, "Check me out!" Again, purposely hiding it.

The first five is completely acceptable and all, I wouldn't bat an eye at you given these are rather expected places to put the ID in. The rest is ... left to be undesired or questioned. If a head of staff or two knows where the ID is, then I see no harm in any of these apart from the toilet, SAT, and plant. The Captain does not know if the station is going to be raided or the what not, what he does know is the ID must be accessible, either locked under key, or in plain sight for a head of staff to get to and take as acting captain.

This is either we keep the ID in the office or move it to the bunker where every head of staff have access to and likely to acquire said ID given relative ease to get there. 

Edited November 19, 2019 by Soultheif96

[Carver]

Are you telling me they nerfed hiding the ID under donuts? Goddamnit.

[ben10083]

Why not just in the Captain's quarters. Perhaps involve the fox in some way (on the pet?) or in a glass case similar to the gun